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Kellow & Kael VIII (Phil Dellio interviews Brian Kellow)

Posted by s woods on January 6, 2012

Phil Dellio:

Something I’ve said more than once over the years is that the three biggest influences on me among writers are Pauline Kael, Bill James, and Greil Marcus. I consider myself lucky to have had some contact with two of them. I interviewed Marcus back when I first started writing, and he later contributed a few comments to my old fanzine; the past couple of years I’ve submitted the occasional question to the “Hey Bill” section of James’s website, and he’s responded to most of them. Something I often regret, though, is that I never sent any of my writing to Pauline Kael. I’ve primarily written about music the past 25 years, but I wish I’d sent her a piece I wrote about the best uses of pop music in Scorsese’s films—an idea that I bet has been done to death now, but which I think was fairly novel when I wrote it up for Scott’s Popped website in the late ‘90s—or a couple of pieces I did for Cinemascope around the same time, which would have been a couple of years before Kael’s death. I have no idea whether I would have had any success in getting anything to her, whether she would have liked any of it if I had, or even whether she would have bothered reading it in the first place. I’m guessing she was bombarded with stuff on a constant basis and from all directions—from the now infamous Wes Anderson solicitation to see Rushmore, to fan letters and invitations and everything in between.

Letter from Kael arrives in the mail: “Thank you for the Scorsese article, Phil. I don’t know what you’ve got here, young man…”

Wasn’t meant to be. Some consolation arrived this past year by way of A Life in the Dark, Brian Kellow’s biography of Pauline Kael. If you check in regularly with rockcritics.com, you’ll know that Scott recently posted a number of links to reviews of Kellow’s book (sometimes reviewed in tandem with The Age of Movies: Selected Writings of Pauline Kael, the third career overview of Kael’s reviews). I’m tempted to say that it’s amazing the amount of interest—often rawly contentious—that Kellow’s book has generated, but I suspect that anyone who has ever strongly felt the pull of Kael’s writing would not be surprised. People have been arguing about Kael since the mid-‘60s; the arguments didn’t stop with her retirement in 1991, and they didn’t stop with her death in 2001. There are a couple of ILX threads devoted to Kael where I’ve been posting the last couple of years, and while (to the best of my knowledge) no one on there ever personally knew Kael, some of the back and forth can get very barbed on occasion. That’s Kael. That readers can still feel so strongly about her in 2011—and I can’t think of another writer I’ve ever argued about so much; a couple of music writers are close—is, to me, the truest barometer you’ll find of just how strong that pull was. (Or, if you aren’t a fan, of how strong your aversion is. Kael’s detractors have always been fierce. But as I say in the accompanying interview, “the circle of people I travel in”—Jesus, where do I come up with this stuff?—is almost exclusively made up of fans.)

Between the message board, Kellow’s book, reviews of the book, and James Wolcott’s Lucking Out (in which Kael figures prominently) on top of all that, I’m a little Kaeled out at the moment, but before I hand it over to Brian, let me say that I think A Life in the Dark is excellent. Its portrayal of Kael did not in any way conflict with my sense of her as a reader (I feel like I have to stress that; some reviews written by friends of Kael’s—some, not by any means all—disagree), and my recognition of her influence on me has deepened. A lot of Kael’s own words make their way into A Life in the Dark via review excerpts, and I liked that: as I wrote on the message board, these excerpts—and the almost month-by-month timeline of the films that caught Kael’s attention—construct a parallel story, the story of American film from the late ‘60s through to the late ‘80s (but American films in the ‘70s especially, which has always been my own frame of reference), that is inseparable from Kael’s. Does Kellow always agree with Kael’s verdict on specific films? No—he’ll sometimes say so. Did I? No. Do I always agree with Kellow’s occasional disagreements with Kael? No. Does any of that detract from the book for me? No. The main thing was that it always felt like I was reading someone who’d been as permanently shaped by the likes of Reeling and Deeper Into Movies as I’ve been, ever since first discovering Kael at some point near the end of high school. There’s an oft-quoted line of Kael’s (a friend has it on the masthead of his blog) from her introduction to For Keeps, one of those earlier career overviews: “I’m frequently asked why I don’t write my memoirs. I think I have.” True—I wouldn’t try to argue that Kael’s body of work did not leave behind a complete world. But I’m still very glad that A Life in the Dark exists.

“One of the most powerful truths to be gleaned from examining Pauline’s life is that it was, throughout its span, a triumph of instinct over an astonishing intellect. Her highly emotional responses to art were what enabled her to make so indelible a mark as a critic. On the surface, it might seem that any critic does the same thing, but it’s doubtful that any critic ever had so little barrier between herself and her subject. She connected with film the way a great actor is supposed to connect with his text, and she took her readers to places they never could have imagined a mere movie review could transport them.”

A Life in the Dark, Brian Kellow

Listen to Phil’s interview with Brian Kellow:

or… Download [mp3]

Posted in Interviews, Kael, Podcast | 2 Comments »

“Immense amount of collective guilt”

Posted by s woods on November 3, 2011

Kevin Avery on the process of compiling interviews for his Paul Nelson bio/compilation.

It snowballed. One person would lead me to two others who would lead me to four others. A lot of this was accomplished by good will, old friends of Paul’s who really wanted to see his work in print again. I found that among Paul’s friends there was the most immense amount of collective guilt that I’ve ever encountered. They felt like, as a whole, they had let him slip away. Paul didn’t make it easy. A lot of them did try to call Paul and he didn’t return their calls. Paul was very good at shutting doors in his life and not turning back.

Posted in Book (P)reviews, Interviews, Paul Nelson | 1 Comment »

Susan Whitall interview (part 2)

Posted by s woods on October 26, 2011

Part 2 of the Susan Whitall interview by Paula Yoo at Music Monday

Yes things have gotten better for female journalists, because of the changes in the broader culture. When I got out of college, in the mid-’70s mind you, scratching to get an ad writing job at an ad agency, the guy hiring actually said these words: ‘We start all our girls in the secretarial pool.’ I mean, right out of ‘Mad Men’!

Luckily I didn’t do that, but found Creem and caught on there. And fortunately, some of our male editors early on — Dave Marsh and Lester Bangs, particularly — were staunch feminists. Today there also isn’t the ever-present fear we had, of being mistaken for groupies. Today I think young women feel free enough, that it’s not a problem if they were taken for party girls. But we were very conscious of wanting to be seen as professionals, not girls looking for a good time. Thus when romantic liasons happened, it was pretty much kept on the down low (laugh)

(Link to part 1)

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Marcus interview in the Voice

Posted by s woods on October 26, 2011

Greil Marcus Revisits Some Strange Days: Jason Bailey interviews GM in the Voice, on the eve of his upcoming Doors book:

‘Look at the iPhone,’ he says, picking it up from next to him on the couch in his crisply decorated, sun-soaked West Village apartment. ‘You know, it’s good looking…’ He pushes the button at the bottom, and his home screen pops up. ‘I mean, isn’t that cool?’ He points at the app logos. ‘What does that mean? Look at all those talismanic symbols — I wonder what they are?’ He contemplates the object. ‘It was derided by all sorts of people, and I was probably one of them, as some sort of expensive status symbol, or just the latest electronic fetish object — But then people discover not only is it beautiful, not only is it cool — in the best sense of the word — but it’s also useful. And it really does make life easier. And not only does it make life easier, but it makes life more interesting and fun.’

Posted in Book (P)reviews, Greil Marcus, Interviews | Leave a Comment »

Ann Powers interview

Posted by s woods on October 24, 2011

Why I Write: Ann Powers Reflects on Writing About Rock (from National Writing Project)

It’s tough these days. Not a lot of decently paying work out there. But hell, try it. Just don’t only do that. You’ll be a much better writer if you explore many different styles: study poetry and philosophy, do some hard reporting, learn multimedia. There are some good masters programs out there now in arts journalism that give you a spectrum of skills. I think those are worth looking into.

Or go work on an organic farm for a year, moonlight as a DJ, occupy Wall Street. Keep doing the music writing one way or another as you move through life. If it becomes a serious thing, great; if not, it will have still changed you somehow.

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Interview with Kevin Avery, re: Paul Nelson

Posted by s woods on October 20, 2011

Paul Nelson: The legendary rock writer’s life story is music book of the year… Kevin Avery in conversation with Marc Campbell at Dangerous Minds:

Marc: At one time, rock and roll critics were almost as interesting as the music and artists they wrote about. I’m thinking of Lester Bangs, Richard Meltzer, Nick Kent, Cameron Crowe, Lenny Kaye and Paul Nelson, among others. They were kind of like literary rock stars. Do you think Paul had problems dealing with the attention he was receiving as a high profile critic and was he too much of a purist to last in that environment?

Kevin Avery: I don’t think he put himself into the position where he could be the recipient of that attention. He often withdrew to his apartment, behind the safety of a closed door and a prehistoric answering machine that his friends grew to despise. Even when he did frequent the Seventies rock scene, there was something “alone” about him.

As for the second part of your question, I don’t know if I’d label him a purist. It’s difficult to call someone a purist who is equally willing to embrace the music of Bob Dylan, Bernard Herrmann, Jackson Browne, the Sex Pistols, and the Ramones. It was the fact that he wasn’t a purist that got him in trouble with the traditional folksters in the Sixties—because he championed Dylan when he plugged in and went electric.

{Be sure to click on our Paul Nelson tag for more.}

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Birds of Fire

Posted by s woods on October 17, 2011

Birds of Fire: Talking Fusion with Kevin Fellezs. Karl Hagstrom Miller interviews the author of a new book on jazz/rock fusion.

[Fusion] was music that I found both virtuosic and visceral — a marriage of technique and expression that I found compelling and exhilarating. And I couldn’t believe that no one else seemed to feel this way. Fusion wasn’t even being talked about in jazz circles and Stuart Nicholson’s Jazz-Rock book was more than a decade away. When I first started this project, it really felt like a personal crusade.

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Brad Tolinski: Interview with Guitar World’s Top Gear Head

Posted by s woods on October 13, 2011

By Steven Ward

Brad Tolinski, the Editor in Chief of Guitar World and Editorial Director of Revolver, still believes in the power of print magazines. Called an “unsung hero in music journalism” by many of the people who work for him and others in the industry, Tolinski has been quietly publishing some of the best American music writing about rock for 25 years.

Veteran music journalists Anthony DeCurtis and J.D. Considine have both written for Tolinski and offered the following comments:

DeCurtis: “The times I’ve written for Brad at Guitar World and Revolver, he was a pleasure to work with. I’m not a musician myself, so I always feel a bit self-conscious writing for places like GW that might be interested in technical matters I’m neither equipped nor particularly inclined to handle. Brad made me feel perfectly at home, part of the team, which is rare at a place where you’re not writing regularly. He encouraged me to concentrate on what I do best — write about the ideas and emotions that drive musicians to create, and that inform their music. He gave me some lovely opportunities, was empathetic with what I wanted to do, and was enthusiastic in his responses. As far as I was concerned, it was a satisfying professional relationship in every way.”

Considine: “Brad is probably the only editor I’ve ever worked with who exhibits true vision. What he did at Guitar World, which before his arrival was little more than a fanzine, is nothing short of amazing, and the other ideas he had at Harris [Publications] — particularly the original Revolver — showed more imagination and range than any of the other music magazine editor I can think of.

“True, they didn’t always work, but that was through no failing of Brad’s. Part of the problem was timing, since Brad’s biggest burst of creativity came just before the big implosion of the magazine market, but it didn’t help that he has pretty much always had to work on a shoestring, whereas other publications had more generous publishers and a more aggressive marketing budget. It should tell you something about the resources Brad had at his disposal that Revolver, in its pre-metal incarnation, had a dedicated editorial staff of three, whereas Blender, its most direct competition, not only had twice as many editors, but also had researchers, copy editors, and its own dedicated photo and art staff. Who knows what Revolver might have become had it had such resources?

“(It also says something that Blender eventually grew to 700,000 circulation, it’s now long gone, whereas Revolver soldiers on.)

Guitar World, though, is where his strengths are most evident. Brad has always been smart about listening to his readers, and has an uncanny ability to give them what they want without seeming to pander. For one thing, he’s a well-trained musician — a violinist, no less — and is able to hear merit in certain types of music that more style-obsessed writers and editors miss. For another, he avoids the anti-metal prejudices much of the rock press carries, and treats the musicians (and their audience) with respect. And he does all that while mostly avoiding the chops-worshiping, gear-obsessive fanboy perspective that makes many musical instrument titles unbearable to read. In fact, some of the best interview stuff you’ll read in Guitar World is often not about guitar playing at all, even though there’s also a lot of how-they-did-that in the stories.

“If Brad has a failing, it’s that he’s very loyal to his long-term staff, which makes the Guitar World universe seem a bit closed-off to outsiders. On the one hand, I admire the sort of loyalty that lets people keep working with him for a decade or more (where else in the music magazine world is that possible?), but given its size and readership, it’s kind of a shame that Guitar World and its offspring haven’t launched as many careers as Rolling Stone or Spin or Musician have. Finally, I’d like to say that Brad has always struck me as a fundamentally decent guy. I wish there were more like him in the biz.”

During the following email interview, Tolinski sounds off on why his magazine doesn’t get the respect it deserves, Revolver‘s competition over at Decibel, his new book about Jimmy Page, and what the future holds for readers of Guitar World.

Steven Ward: How did you first get involved in music journalism? What rock magazines did you read growing up and where was your first piece of music journalism published?

Brad Tolinski: It was a bit of a long and winding road. I was always interested in both music and writing. I taught myself to play guitar back in Detroit in the seventies. Additionally, I studied and played classical and jazz violin right through college and beyond. I even spent a couple years working at a folk and bluegrass music store, and taught fiddle and mandolin. I’ve always been interested in wide varieties of music and I still listen to everything from Bach to Miles to Motown to the most extreme forms of metal. It’s an important part of my story.

In the mid-Eighties I left Detroit and worked at one of the first recording studios in New York that used Apple computers to sample, sequence and record. While I was at the studio, I started writing for an independent music magazine called Music, Computers and Software to supplement my income. Some of my first pieces were very technical in nature, but I also had the opportunity to interview computer savvy musicians like Roger Waters, Stewart Copeland and Joe Jackson. I discovered I was good at it and started editing the magazine full time. From there I was recruited by Harris Publications to work on a short-lived electronic music publication called Modern Keyboard that folded after just a few issues.

Harris was having some circulation problems with Guitar World at the time and asked me to come on board as associate editor to help straighten them out. Essentially, the magazine had moved in a more serious jazz and blues direction, which I thought was a mistake. Despite my background in jazz, I felt that the electric guitar was primarily a rock instrument and that’s where all the action was happening.

This was in the very late eighties, and I pushed hard for GW to cover thrash bands and all the super progressive hair metal guys. I also lobbied to start putting guitar transcriptions into the magazine. All of these moves proved to be positive for circulation, so when the GW Editor-in-Chief Joe Bosso left to pursue a record industry A&R job, I was installed into his position.

Read the rest of this entry »

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Susan Whitall interview

Posted by s woods on October 3, 2011

At Music Monday, the first of a two-part interview with Susan Whitall, former Creemster and current author of Fever, a biography of Little Willie John. Keep your eye out for part two, apparently a week from now.

Growing up in the ’60s, music was really revolutionizing society, and vice versa…to be a kid and immersed in it to such an extent that the latest Beatles or Temptations album mean standing in line for hours outside a record store, there was an intensity there that I think may not exist today. Having said that, if there had been a hip, exciting magazine about film in Detroit, or books… I may have drifted there. But in the ’60s music was the top form of expression, so to have a magazine about music in almost my back yard, was too tempting. Really, Creem was more than a music magazine too, we had stories of cultural interest, on movies, books etc. There really were few limits, as long as it was entertaining, so it was a great laboratory of writing.

Posted in Creem, Interviews | 1 Comment »

Chuck Eddy Triptych

Posted by s woods on September 30, 2011

A twin feature from the Los Angeles Review of Books: King of the Contrarians: Josh Langhoff introduces Chuck Eddy, the man with more voice per square inch than any other rock critic, and Michaelangelo Matos finds out what makes him tick.

Also, in PopMatters: Chuck Eddy Will Piss You Off with ‘Rock and Roll Always Forgets’ by W. Scott Poole

Posted in Book (P)reviews, Chuck Eddy, Interviews, Links | 1 Comment »

Simon Frith interview (2010)

Posted by s woods on September 21, 2011

Not a new interview, but new to me. Simon Frith interviewed at DRYRIB. Part 1 and Part 2.

I don’t regret any of my critical assessments—mostly because I can’t remember most of them. One of the salutary lessons an academic learns writing for a paper like Melody Maker is that readers’ interest in what you say barely survives the day of publication so I often regretted my assessments on the day they came out but then they ceased to matter. I did dismiss the Smiths as non-starters when I saw them as a local support act early in their career and I can remember thinking (though not sure if I wrote) that Madonna was foolishly overrated when her career began. I was wrong often enough but have no regrets about going public — part of the fun of being a critic.

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Chuck Eddy Interview on YouTube

Posted by s woods on September 5, 2011

Rock Book Show: Interview With Music Critic Chuck Eddy

Posted in Book (P)reviews, Chuck Eddy, Interviews, YouTubes | Leave a Comment »

Got a Question for Simon Reynolds?

Posted by s woods on August 11, 2011

Send it to The Daily Swarm.

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The Economics of Rock Criticism #387

Posted by s woods on August 10, 2011

Milo Miles in his interview with Steven Ward at rockcritics.com:

As to freelance writing, if you are not part of the scarce elite who get hitched to the slick-magazine gravy train you better be part of a two-income couple, as I am, if you want to get by at all.

And that was ten years ago, almost to the day, when there was still (or so it seemed at the time) a ground to stand on. (More on the economics of rock criticism here.)

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Rough Index to EddyFest, 2011 (Part three)

Posted by s woods on August 7, 2011

Final quotes and discussion points from EddyFest 2011 (Weingarten/Kogan)

[CHRISTOPHER WEINGARTEN]

  • CE: “What’s weird about Accidental — and it seems like a lot of people like Accidental more than Stairway now — this is a tangent, but — Accidental, a lot of those lists, it’s proto-ILM [a.k.a. I Love Music]. To me it kind of decreases its value over time, it’s just like, ‘oh, I was just doing ILM threads.’  CW: Yeah, where as now you’d have, like, 50 people to help you make it even more thorough.
  • “Now the information is on your fingertips, so like, who gives a shit? Back then, it was actually just fun to figure that stuff out… Back in those days, you actually had to listen to music.”
  • CE confesses to using Wiki: “You can’t not use it… Everybody’s knowledge becomes everybody else’s knowledge. Which means there’s no secret knowledge, there’s fewer and fewer surprises.”
  • CE re: the Cloud: “You know what? I don’t want fucking everything at my fingertips. It was better when it wasn’t at my fingertips… I would rather find something by accident, or hear something accidental over the radio, than be, you know, looking for it and be able to find it in 30 seconds. It takes all the fun out of it. Not all the fun, but it takes a lot of the fun out of it.”
  • CW: “We’ve kind of lost the folklore aspect of music” (to illustrate the point, notes the “Eat Me easter egg” in the Licensed to Ill album art, which he was told about well after the fact).
  • CW: “What do you do to keep that element of surprise in your listening?”  CE: “What do I do? Outside of what I have to do for money, I don’t listen to music on the internet — I just don’t. I live in Austin, there are eight pretty good record stores here, maybe, most of them have dollar bins, there’s a record convention twice a year that has dollar bins, there are garage sales, there are thrift stores… in the car I have my radio on and hear stuff by accident.”
  • “I want to walk into a used record store, go to a dollar bin, and see “Shoot the Pump” by J. Walter Negro that Christgau wrote about in his “Additional Consumer News” to the Consumer Guide in 1982, that I’d never seen, and I’m like, holy shit — this is that record. And pay a dollar for it. And it’ll be the best record I’ve heard in the last five years, which it is…. You can still do it, you just have to not fall for everything they’re trying to sell you, I guess. Just because someone creates a need for me, doesn’t mean I have that need.”
  • CW: “So, let’s say I were to adopt the accidental method of hearing music. How would I know what chillwave sounds like?  CE: Why would you want to?  CW: That’s a very good point! But I feel that part of our job is knowing what the discourse is about, and knowing, you know, the things that are defining the sound of now.  CE: It’s part of your job if you’re writing about chillwave, for one thing. It’s not part of my job to know…. [discussion then detours into another terrible-sounding genre he'd be better off not kowing much about] what power violence sounds like .. Until I’m assigned a power violence article, I could give a shit what power violence sounds like.”
  • CE acknowledges that his perspective in part stems from being “one of the very, very few people in this world lucky enough to get free promos in the mail pretty much every working day for the last quarter century.”
  • Good points by CE on why it’s not necessarily important to know what chillwave is, or which chillwave artists matter, if you’re reviewing a chillwave record… “the point is, I’m writing about that record… I don’t even have to pretend chillwave exists!” (CW: “I wish I could pretend it didn’t exist!”)
  • CW ends interview by “[lobbing] a softball” — “Have you talked to any of the Beastie Boys since?”  CE ponders writing a 25-years-ago-today essay — “hey, maybe I should!” [Heard it here first.]

[FRANK KOGAN]

  • How Pere Ubu & Nazareth Brought Frank and Chuck Together at Last: CE asks FK “how we first met”; FK notes it was due to correspondence FK started with CE after reading “Howls From the Heartland: The Untamed Midwest” in the VV (said piece of which is reprinted in RARAF); FK took exception at time to CE saying Pere Ubu “[thought] of themselves as a heavy metal band, and I said, ‘okay, I’m gonna write this guy a letter and set him right!’”
  • We Are All Cinderella Now: Randy Montana and the State of Contemporary Country: FK’s favourite RM song, after one listen, is “It’s Gone” in part because the riff reminds him of “Gypsy Road” by “Schoolly-D’s favourite band, Cinderella.” CE responds: “I hear Cinderella in so much modern country that I probably stopped hearing Cinderella.” … FK “really likes” the guitars on the RM album, and notes that “country has kept the guitar as a viable contemporary instrument, and I wouldn’t say that they’re breaking ground, but… if, in let’s say 1969, Jorma Kaukonen or someone like that had done some of those intervals that the guitars were doing on this album, I would’ve said, ‘Wow! That’s damn amazing and innovative.’” … CE and FK affirm mutual belief that (in CE’s words) “this is a really horrible year for country.” … Short riff by CE on hair metal’s affinity with cowboys and with southern rock… CE: “I kind of think that what made country so exciting in the last ten years, it seems like it was “a historic blip, and I just feel like it had to run out.” … FK: “Why Country Sucks: That could be a fanzine!”
  • CE and FK on K-Pop:  FK notes of one K-Pop outfit (SW not sure who’s being discussed here) that they have “incredible dance routines” (due to performing the song on different TV shows, night after night) — “they make things into an event very well.” … CE would enjoy more K-Pop if he wasn’t chasing down YouTubes and was instead actually listening to LPs of the stuff (“I have to really go out of my way to see stuff… you have to be very active to pick up on that stuff”) … CE’s 3-year old daughter does, however, love E.Via’s “Pick Up U.”
  • Just in Case You Were Thinking of Buying the New Night Ranger Album: FK asks CE “what have you been listening to in the last day?” A seemingly startled CE provides capsule review of new NR, which he just listened to in his car: “I really liked the music, I liked the singing, I liked the melodies, I liked the arrangements, but I kind of think the songwriting sucks from beginning to end. So I don’t even think I’m going to end up keeping the record.”
  • CE’s Other Recent Listening… includes: New John Waite and Nazareth albums (FK hasn’t heard either). CE: “In the new book, I write about how I kind of left metal to the metalheads, and I don’t really pay attention to it much anymore. But Rhapsody wanted metal to be my specialty, and I basically have  contracted to a certain number of hours a month for them.” Via which he has also listened to and enjoyed  The Gentleman’s Pistols (from England… “seventies hard rock stuff”) and Cauldron (from Toronto… “early ’80s metal… between really early Def Leppard and really early Metallica, when they were both wearing blue jeans”)… “What’s weird is that I’m actually listening to rock this year.”
  • With the Clok Tik-Tokking on Pop: CE: “I say I hate country now, but I hate pop music even more; I kind of don’t give a shit about pop music now, and I feel really bad about that, you know, I feel like I must be missing something, but I don’t know where it is. I mean, I guess it’s in Korea! [laughs]… I can say this is a horrible year for country, but it’s not like it seems like a better year for r&b or pop to me.” FK thinks it’s better than 2009, which was the real disappointing recent pop year for him, and that, following exciting things like “Boom Boom Pow” and “Disturbia” pop “got into a really lame rut, really fast.”  CE: “Last year I got excited by Ke$ha, eventually, and the year before I got excited by Gaga, eventually, and… the Far East Movement stuff last year…” CE also notes that he’s “the disco sucks guy now — but maybe this time, ‘disco sucks’ is right, maybe this time disco really does suck…. And I want to love Pitbull.” FK notes there’s “a ceiling” on how good Pitbull will ever be; CE thinks there may be a ceiling on how good any of it will be, including Ke$ha and Lady Gaga.FK: “Ke$ha’s interesting. My guess is that there’s actually nowhere for her to go, that she’s actually… if she repeats the stuff, she’s ‘repeating the stuff,’ but if she — how much can you do about, like, I threw up in the closet? How many times can you do that? And be the, you know, the kind of hood rat in kind of glitter rags who mingles with the rich and throws up on them? I thought it was a great idea, I think Tom Ewing said this… she sort of found a way to make auto-tune register as feedback…” CE: “Right, she was using it as noise, or whatever…” FK: “But it’s like, so much of it — it’s like ’60s stuff. ’65 through ’68 was astonishing. But so much of that depended on the sounds being new. And the idea of affronting a lot of people, and you can’t sustain that because it all gets accepted, and in some ways it’s now, sort of, the standard part of the palette, so that Randy Montana’s band can do stuff that would’ve affronted people 40 years ago. And now it’s just kind of, you know, these are the colours we’re using, and…” CE: “But Frank, I kind of think you care more about music affronting people than I do. I don’t care if Randy Montana is affronting people.” FK: “No, I don’t either, what I’m saying is that, the music that depends on affronting people is gonna have a time limit, because it just can’t keep working…” CE brings Eminem, Axl Rose, Johnny Rotten, the Beastie Boys, and Courtney Love into it: “They don’t really last that long.” FK: “Punks don’t grow, they stop.” [Lots more good bits in this part, about old people making pop music, self-destruction in pop, etc., but SW's wrist is sore, not from typing but from constantly stopping and starting and rewinding the mp3.]
  • CE: “I’m getting tired here, Frank!”
  • The Revival of Everything Rock vs. Collage Rock:  CE notes that collage = not just Teena Marie but “Wango Tango” by Ted Nugent (and Charley Patton)…. FK draws distinction between ‘collage’ and ‘everything,’ CE calls it a misreading, claims that “maybe everything now” is “everything rock”… “everything rock is no big deal anymore”… CE “really, really, really doesn’t give a shit about Bruno Mars” … CE: “If something like ‘Pump up the Volume’ came on now, I’d probably like it more than anything on the radio, it just seems like it might be more interesting.” Also notes that rock no longer being afraid of dance music or hip-hop didn’t make rock better… CE even down on disco-metal fusion: “It probably ended up happening, and it probably sucked.”

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